Curse

rii · Dec 04, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Skill Modifications

The aim of this thread is basically not OMG NERF RANGERS/IWAY but lots of modifications to skills that either have good effects but are implemented badly or have bad effects which need changing. Several are linked closely with the current spike meta-game, others not. Sorry for the length, but comments would be appreciated.

Elementalist

Lightening Javelin: Interrupt eh? Frankly I think the modifier should be + damage (same as the initial damage) against attacking foes. Interrupting in any significant way is meaningless due to casting time and the spammability of attacks. Or perhaps let it interrupt spells too, either way it should be changed

Thunderclap: Minimum loss 4 energy, but maybe a 30 second cooldown to stop people spamming it

W/Melee and /Foes: A bit too strong. At the moment they’re lol skills in that if you lay down, you shaft said foe. Frankly, that’s a bit out really. I suggest it be reduced to 25% less and 25% miss, or similar. Then it’s more support shutdown instead of THE shutdown, but still is quite effective. An earth ele being able to shutdown all the nearby warriors and nuke with ease is a bit ridiculous tbh.

Glyphs: Reduce casting times to ¼… frankly I’m against an interrupt ranger so I use glyph of concentration LOL then he can’t touch this. O noes… he distracts concentration with a 1s casting time!1!11!! Stupid tbh; Also, reduce glyph of sacrifice’s cooldown to 5/10… 15 isn’t necessary, atm the only thing I use this for is echo nuking.

Fire AOE: Buff them! Mobs no longer get pwned by them so can we use them pvp now? Meteorshower on the dais is pretty dam good, but if firestorm was buffed to say, 20-45 damage I might look fires way in tombs a bit more often

Searing Heat: I don’t get this skill, in terms of damage and cost its not anywhere near as good as firestorm. Make it for 10 seconds units in the area are set on fire for 1-3 seconds or something similar. Then firestorm vs searing is 45dps before armour vs 14dps armour ignoring… maybe increase the area/duration a little. It might actually be fun as well.

Mesmer

Diversion: Id rather have a shorter casting time and a longer recharge than how it is atm. Taking the other classes as comparison, a ranger with distracting can shutdown two skills, whereas diversion can take….4/5 at max efficiency
Against less aware players that’s still a bit too powerful, but against experienced players its pretty crap due to people using common sense. Id rather it be say, ¼ casting time and 25 second cooldown. A nice work in to interrupters, just as distract is for rangers.

Energy Burn/Surge: Good energy denial here and the damage is also really quite good. Perhaps make the energy burned the same as the modded energy drain: i.e. halve the energy lost and double the damage from each point lost. This wouldn’t shaft the person being drained (although it would hurt if five were done at the same time) and the person casting has a higher chance of getting max damage, again similar to energy drain nerf/buff. An increase to the recharge might also be in order, but only 5/10 seconds.

Ignorance: target and all adjacent foes in my wildest dreams please

Etheral Burden: I don’t see why this needs a 45 seconds cooldown. 25/30 would make it much better for the short duration, and the energy isn’t great either.

Fragility: I think this was nerfed too hard. Frankly I’d like to see it back to its old damage and remove the ‘recovery’ damage. That means fraggers can whip out some nice damage at the start but don’t pwn them to hell 3 seconds later

IW: buff it! More damage (not a lot more) and return it to being non-chaos…. So shielding hands doesn’t kill it; maybe max 50 armor/resistance/everything ignoring. An aware enemy can still beat it but at least you get your moneys worth while it’s up.

Sympathetic Visage: All adrenaline? The energy drain is alright, but scale the adrenaline lost similar to adrenaline gained from bath spirit. Too easy for non-illusionists to pick up with +enchant mod and own warrior spike in the face

Elemental/Physical Resistance: I use these all the time (all though a lot of people probably haven’t heard of them) and they rock hard. Half damage from eles in a spike Meta game wins me a lot of matches, and physical is sometimes useful, although most warrior damage is either holy (ji) or ordered. Reduce to 20al perhaps, or scale it with +40 at 15 inspiration.

Energy Drain/Tap: why was their cooldown nerfed? Maybe I missed something but I think it should go back to 20s

Keystone Signet: Blah, I don’t like it; frankly I would like a kind of elite signet stance that reduces casting time of signets and recharge time, like a really buffed elite version of inscriptions. I WOULD use this in signet builds if that happened. Maybe casting time reduced by 50% and recharge by 10-80%.... but I’m getting a bit carried away there.

Resolve: Loose more energy, too good atm

Arcane Mimicry: Only time I thought of using this was to oath shot/spike trap and oath shot/marksmans wager MEGA RANGTEHS… reduce the cost/recharge and some nice strats might emerge. Cost to 10, and recharge 30, same as echos.

Monk

Divine Intervention: Reduce cooldown… probably to 10, due to quantity of spike these days

Watchful Spirit: If target ally takes fatal damage when watchful spirit is on them, watchful spirit ends and target ally is healed for 50-250 health. Omg, maintained intervention; A useful skill.

Vital Blessing: ¼ second casting time, and slight buff to health added. Another useful anti-spike skill misted out of the air.

Peace and Harmony: +3 energy regen, then it’s the same as all other elite energy management (roughly), but passive. Also maybe remove the end conditions, since it seems to result in it bugging off on several monk skills. Reduce length of duration and recharge, which would be nice at least in enchant removal heavy environment.

Unyeilding Aura: No maintained aspect and much lower cooldown, but even then I probably wouldn’t use it over normal res skills w/fast casting

Mending: While you maintain this enchantment target ally gains 1-3 health regeneration and conditions cast upon them have 10-30% reduction in duration
I know runners and so forth love this skill (I am one occasionally) but pvp useless. Condition reduction would be nice vs trapper teams and in general (also good on warriors to reduce weakness and blind – often favorite shutdowns (OMG MENDING WARRIORS FTW)). Don’t know the exact percentages but that’s what you’re looking at roughly.

Purge Conditions: 15s cooldown perhaps?

Shield of Deflection: 1/4 s casting time and then either a) more armor or b) longer duration

Smite: Id say 5 energy would be much better. Flourish builds get a small buff. I would say perhaps banish and maybe holy strike should also be made attacks. Flourish needs something to work with.

Necromancer

Awaken the Blood: Link to soul reaping! Wanting to be a curser w/ high level and having to go into blood sucks. Sr at least helps out with a blood or curser.

Barbs, Weaken Armor, Rigor Mortis: 20s cooldown, physical teams are rare enough atm.

Plague Signet: To target foe and all nearby foes?

>>> Corpses are reserved when you start casting a corpse skill. Lots of people have said it before but I’m saying it because I agree.

Blood of the Master: I don’t see why it’s not just all undead allies, but for the moment expand it to nearby range

Ranger

Practiced Stance: Make it add +2 to all attributes or similar, then perhaps people who aren’t using choking gas might look at it

Power Shot: rangers have no skill that causes a deep wound. Probably because it’s imbalanced, but if it isn’t why not make the currently crap power shot do so? Increase cost and recharge to make it reasonable, and then people would use it. Also remove the + damage. Otherwise its evis non-elite… you want it more like dismember

Antidote Signet: I never use/consider using this. Either reduce the casting time or expand to all conditions, or similar (target ally would be cool, but probably overpowered)

Duel Shot: 10s cooldown, then ranger spike isn’t a continuous stream, but actually has some respite. That’s really my only gripe with ranger spike

Warrior

Axe Rake/Twist: 5/6Adrenaline cost. Atm, I find it too much to be worth it. Some people will disagree but meh

Cyclone Axe: 10s cooldown: on the dais with orders this is actually a lol skill. In farming it’s also very very good, in terms of healing and adrenaline building. A total keystone skill, and frankly even though I like it it’s a bit too good.

Disrupting Chop: Casting time? ½? Might be too strong, so increase adrenaline cost to 8a if so

Crude Swing: Why is it easily interrupted? Don’t think it should be

“I will avenge you”: scale the ias in relation to level in strength? This at least stops ranger iway which rocks (on the few occasions I’ve seen it)

“I Will Survive”: I want 20s cooldown, still too long to be useful at the moment

Dwarven Battle Stance: Ingrained ias, or make it a skill. Too limiting, and frankly I’m sure it’s meant to be a counterpart of incendiary arrows, which it really isn’t

Shield Bash: Reduce recharge to… 10s. I don’t see a problem with that

Savage Slash: Casting Time of ¼/ ½ or similar please o god, like disrupting too sporadic to be useful, and with the plus damage sword might start looking better

“To the Limit”: Gain two strikes per person? People don’t group enough for this to be worth it in my view, although occasionally in melees I enjoy evis/exec/pen/evis/exec-style combos… they are rare though

Skull Crack: Add a kd effect and reduce to 8 adrenaline… it would rise in usefulness as a non-hammer kd option for warriors.

Wild Blow: gah, take away the adrenaline loss and give a 10/15s cooldown. Too mindlessly spammable at too high a cost; At least it might inspire some tactical use without owning your warriors damage.

Thoughts?

chris_nin00 · Dec 04, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Thoughts?

......
*yawn*

this is... interesting...

Lim-Dul · Dec 07, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Well - from what I'm seeing this is a "nerf all popular skills/team builds", "buff all non-popular skills sky high" post. I mean - most of your ideas are ridiculous cause they either nerf a skill too much, or buff it too much. And besides that you actually aren't really countering the most popular team builds.

Examples:

Quote:

Thunderclap: Minimum loss 4 energy, but maybe a 30 second cooldown to stop people spamming it

Why? You have no hex removal, you lose. And how can ya spam thunderclap anywhere except for random arenas? 0_o

Quote:

Energy Burn/Surge: Good energy denial here and the damage is also really quite good. Perhaps make the energy burned the same as the modded energy drain: i.e. halve the energy lost and double the damage from each point lost. This wouldn’t shaft the person being drained (although it would hurt if five were done at the same time) and the person casting has a higher chance of getting max damage, again similar to energy drain nerf/buff. An increase to the recharge might also be in order, but only 5/10 seconds.

Why are you trying to nerf Mesmer energy denial? I mean - Mesmers aren't meant to deal that much damage, it's the energy loss that hurts the most and this should stay that way.

Quote:

Purge Conditions: 15s cooldown perhaps?

Why?

Quote:

Peace and Harmony: +3 energy regen,

n/c

Etc...

I think you put too many skills on your "useless as it is" list. It is of no importance that there are more popular skills and less popular skills - all have their uses, but not all people KNOW them. I agree with some of your ideas, mainly the "buffing" ones like on Skull Crack and Savage Slash etc., but all in such a huge amount of balance shifting would cause the same thing that happens to all games being constantly nerfed/buffed - everything gets duller and too much alike.

PieXags · Dec 08, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Only ones that I'm concerned about are the mesmer skills. I don't think you need to nerf physical/elemental resistance at all, hell if they didn't have SOME sort of defense they'd be torn into pieces easy as hell. (Like...they often do, when targeted.) I think fragility is fine as is, and diversion shouldn't be changed either, I'd have to say. Sure it can disable 4/5 skills at it's max, but mesmers are SUPPOSED to shut down. A mesmer's job is to COUNTER. A ranger shouldn't be able to take out a lot of someone's skills by disabling them, it's not their job. I also don't see a problem with energy surge/burn. I think they're fine, if a mesmer can't drain energy that's just taking away one of it's purposes.

The others are alright, decently thought through. I will say that the keystone signet is a WONDERFUL skill, though, and I'd be pretty PISSED if it was changed.

Definately disagree with the mesmer nerfs, mainly. Mesmers are a great class that, if anything, need MORE to work with. I'm tired of all the wicked 1337 domination magic trying to "dominate" everything.

Damon Windwalker · Dec 08, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Nerf The Nerfbat!!!!

Zhou Feng · Dec 09, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

/not signed I really can't take a liking to these suggestions.

The only thing I could see in need of rectifying is to perhaps rework sword skills and come up with new better sword skills.

tafy69 · Dec 09, 2005, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Some I agree with some i dont..

Glyph concentration shouldnt be interuptable maybe or faster cast time

Mantra resolve maybe add 1 extra on its energy drain if interupted.

I still think Shield of Deflection should be made to 5 energy, and last 5 seconds. Maybe half the armour added bonus to make it fair.

Energy is hard enough for monks as is, a 10 energy buffed guardian is just ouch.

rii · Dec 11, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Wow completely forgot about this thread -.-:

Quote:

......
*yawn*

this is... interesting...

Good for you....

Quote:

Well - from what I'm seeing this is a "nerf all popular skills/team builds", "buff all non-popular skills sky high" post. I mean - most of your ideas are ridiculous cause they either nerf a skill too much, or buff it too much. And besides that you actually aren't really countering the most popular team builds.

a) Not really, the skills i wanted to nerf (e.g. cyclone axe) are skills that i think are popular because they are too good ^^, as i know from.. using them...(or i think i know

)
b) any evidence? giving cyclone a 10s cooldown isnt a ubah nerf, nor is giving the redundent sheild bash a 10s cooldown either. The entire concept of it is a waste of space outside of that wa/ 1v1 tournie being organised.
c) cyclone axe, duel shot, vital blessing, watchful spirit, divine intervention, wards, glyphs, resolve, awaken, are all modified to change 'popular team builds', to wit, ranger spike, iway, and spike builds... also to make warriors a bit more interesting gvg. I fail to see how thats not addressing popular builds

Piexags:

Yeah, thinking about it a nerf isnt required. I would like a scaling of the +al though, since a few points chucked in to the line to get a decent duration and happy days ^.^ atm. At least force investment for the return. The al level is fair enough i suppose.

I ran frag in the ca yesterday and that was awful... i tried it in a team of condition spammers, but it again was lacking. Its not bad, like you say, but i think people might actually use it a bit more in its modified incarnation.

Mesmers are supposed to shutdown indeed. However, of course there is a limit. In ye old days i walked into the ca with res sig, diversion, and fast cast res (my minimalist days) and i walked over most of the casters there with some neat calling. That was because it was too good. Now its been taken down the spammable-but-dedication-required-to-use line and i personally think it would suit more in terms of occasional-but-reliable format. And frankly, taking 4/5 skills is too many. Shutdown and skill disable isnt really the same sphere. I consider arcane theivery good and that only takes out 1 skill. And signet of humilty, which often only does so 50% of the time.

Comment on surge/burn recinded.

I still hate keystone -.-

Tafy: 5e/5s is the same as guadian :S? I think 10s duration/5e cost?

Guardian of the Light · Dec 11, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

The only ones I agree with are:

Lightening Javelin
Glyphs
Fire AOE
Searing Heat
Diversion
>>> Corpses are reserved when you start casting a corpse skill. Lots of people have said it before but I’m saying it because I agree.
Awaken the Blood
“I Will Survive”
Dwarven Battle Stance

All the others made me laugh

. Skull crack being spammable kding and dazing, ROFL. Think a bit more about your skills.

SaintGreg · Dec 11, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

You can't honestly think all these skills need to go from good to uber do you? Peace and harmony, 2 people getting +3 energy regen? Wild blow and then follow with an eviscerate - are you nuts?

I think the only skill in the whole lot of that which I agree should be buffed is smite - banish does much higher damage/energy, and thats direct spell damage, not an attack which could miss easily.

I think you really missed the least used skill of all - purge signet. 3 second cast, long recharge, tons of energy lost. Whats the point? As long as I have tried to find a use for this skill, in the end I find that it just plain sucks. Lowering the cast to 2 or maybe 1 second would at least mean someone could use it...

TGgold · Dec 11, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I must say, I really don't agree with more than 3/4 of these ideas. I think you want to buff things that don't need buffing, and nerf things that don't need nerfing. I also think that these changes would blow the synergy of most skills totally out of the way.

Also, I think Fire AoE skills do need a little buff, but not as big of one as you woudl like. If anything, they make more sense now. You cast them, and people don't stand in that spot.

For the record, I think Searing Heat is fine as is. It was worthless when it caused exhaustion, but it's fine now.

Watchful Spirit triggering at death? Are you crazy. I'm just imagining an entire team with Mo somewhere in their name, maintaining the enchant on one another. I mean, I can also see how illusion of weakness, then watchful spirit owuld be totally overwhelmed if they didn't rend enchantments. *goes down to 25% health...shoots up to 75% health. Gets knocked to death. Goes back up to 50% health*

Yeah. That's my beef.

Syno Nym · Dec 11, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Remove rangers and Obsidian Flame from the game and I'll be happy...

Just kidding ~~ (not really in fact but... nevermind)

Give a ten seconds recharge to every ranger skill which might be used for spiking. Give a ten seconds recharge to Obsidian flame, that would already be nice.

rii · Dec 11, 2005, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Skull Crack: Outside of a joke in ca I dont ever use this (pvp) since its a waste of time. Perhaps leaving at 9a would be sensible but spammable that isnt. Check it against teh spammz0r devastating at 7a :S

PandH: Read 'reduce length and duration' That was specifically included to make it not a waste of time and for spamming on multiple people not practical outside of a mo/r with qz and sq -.-

Wild Blow - ok, longer cooldown than i suggested. But the loose all adrenaline makes it not useful on anyone wanting to use 'skills'. Unless under dark fury and against something that isnt spammable like distortion this skill isnt practical. Im not saying its not good, but its not practical.

Purge Signet became useful when i learnt how to focus swap.

Quote:

I think you want to buff things that don't need buffing, and nerf things that don't need nerfing. I also think that these changes would blow the synergy of most skills totally out of the way.

Mind giving some examples? Your saying you think that wards are fine? Power shot is useful? Watchful Spirit has a purpose besides Frogs Ubah Mender?

If you buffed firestorm's damage then obviously an increase in energy cost is fine (recharge is fine). Atm, the damage is pitiful if the person underneath is wearing armour. And how many places are there that you need someone to get out the way so bad you can justify a character on them? The dais, and thats about it. Anywhere else and something else is just better. Why? Because the skills are underpowered.

Searing Heat isnt fine. It lasts for half the time of firestorm, but has a shorter cooldown, and for this we get charged 2.5x the cost? The al ignoring damage at the end is small enough to not care about. What im suggesting isnt a nerf or buff, its something to distinguish to two, but remain about as useful.

I forgot to write it in, it was assumed, but vital blessing and watchful spirit will now get reasonable recharge timers ^^, meaning this kind of stuff wont happen. And of course, enchantment removal ftw -.-